He would say what the Scriptures say....none of this is a "shock" to God or Jesus....in the Scriptures, Israel is God's chosen, and they have faced torment and near destruction because of that....

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here....but when evil men do evil things, it takes good men to do extreme things to deal with them....I am not sure why you ppl do not understand that sitting at a table trying to "talk it out" with these fundamentalists Muslims does not, nor will it ever, work....

You sure don't give the fundamentalist Christians that much grace....

Consider the fact that the same sort of wars were being fought there a thousand years before Jesus ever showed up. Jesus was rejected in part because he didn't advocate militant rebellion the way many Jews believed the Messiah was prophesied to.

My guess is that it wouldn't be much of a surprise. After all, look what God enabled Israel to do, and sent angels to do directly in the OT to "enemies of Israel". No offense, but God told Israel to kill every man, woman, child and goat when fighting against some enemies in the old testament, and then punished Israel for not killing them all.

Remember all that 'you can have their land because they worship other gods' stuff? I'm thinking Jesus would just see this as standard operating procedure in the Middle East.

It's all in his plan to begin with. Why would he be surprised? The pandora box of sin was opened a long time ago.

Most people believe that the Zionist movement of the time would have never gotten the support they needed to be given Israel were it not for what Jews suffered at the hands of the Nazis. KFC, would you then say that the Holocaust was in God's plan, too?

KFC, would you then say that the Holocaust was in God's plan, too?

absolutely. He would have stopped it otherwise.

Death and destruction comes from Satan but God has twarted his purposes at times. Right from the beginning Satan has repeatedly attempted to destroy the Jewish lineage and God stopped his plans after a time. Remember the Pharoah in Moses time? Haman? Herod? Hitler is just one in a long line.

When you look back over their history you can see they were a nation hanging onto their fingernails more than once. For all intents and purposes this nation should not be here. God has a plan for them still. He's not done with them yet.

"absolutely. He would have stopped it otherwise. "

Wait, wait. So you are saying that anything that God doesn't stop is part of God's plan? What you just said to me basically sounds like the murder of 6 million Jews was God's will. Maybe you should clarify.

You realize that an omniscient God could know everything that ever was going to happen, and still not be the active "planner" of it all, right? Where do you get the idea that anything that happens is part of some grand plan? You can have prophesy without everything being scheduled.

absolutely. He would have stopped it otherwise.

Ouch. Tell that to the families of everyone who lost someone during that.

I can't call that comment very christian, KFC . . . God doesn't put his fingers in everybody's pie - otherwise, there would be no agency.

I believe that God planned for it to happen...but did not plan it to happen....God knew it would happen, but he did not make it happen.

Just like man and sin...He knew that Man would choose sin...but he did not make Man choose sin

All this idiot sophistry, along with the attempts to calculate how many angels are dancing on the head of this particular pin (as well as the net into which Baker is attempting to entice the 'christian' KFC - into which she's walking with her eyes wide shut) can be avoided by the realization that one of God's favorite pastimes is genocide.

Why bother worshipping something that isn't an amoral motherfucker with a twisted sense of humor?

I think all I can say is wow.

Good response.

I think all I can say is wow.

It's amazing how much a thread can change, huh? This has absolutely nothing to do with what you started this article with. Welcome to JU . . .

No, I don't think it is really a departure. I think the point of the original article is to say that Jesus would feel negatively toward what is going on in both Lebanon and Iraq. My point was, if Jesus is truly God, how Jesus would have a problem with all out war and the killing of women and children when "He" went so far as to ORDER Israel to do such in the old testament...

Wait, wait. So you are saying that anything that God doesn't stop is part of God's plan? What you just said to me basically sounds like the murder of 6 million Jews was God's will. Maybe you should clarify.

I think it's all God's plan. He knew right from the get go that the Holocaust was going to happen. Sin is not God's will. Murder is sin. Man chose sin. Man chose to rebell against God's will.

I think of Joseph at the end of Genesis. He was sold into slavery by his brothers, his coat dipped in blood brought back to his father. Sounds awful but even after Joseph's hard life being imprisioned and all God was preparing him for something bigger. Just like the Jewish nation. Joseph said about his years of trying times...."As for you, you thought evil against me but God meant it for good to bring to pass as it is this day to save much people alive."

While it didn't make sense at the time, 70 souls went down into Egypt under the protection of Joseph during a severe famine. Later after 430 years of bondage to the Egyptians 603,000 men walked out of there. God does use the enemy for his purpose as he did here. In this case they flourished during this time of adverstiy.

Peter said "Do not think it a strange thing when you are called to suffer." So why should we be surprised? Suffering exists in a world of sin. But God uses this to bring about our very sanctification. There is triumph in tragedy. Fire is hot, but it does refine; it produces precious gold and silver but the silversmith never takes his eyes off the fire. In John it says..."You will suffer." and in Romans it says "must suffer".... not you may suffer but we can be sure of it.

I believe all sufferning fits into the scheme of God's sovereignty but there are things about suffering that God has not chosen to reveal. This is where trust is really put to the test. I've read many accounts of those who kept the faith in the Holocaust..my favorite being Corrie Ten Boom of Holland. Her sister died in her arms in the camp. Thru it all she trusted God and what a testimony she walked out with.

Although scripture informs us how and why evil came about, it does not tell us why God allowed it to happen. However we do know that God is all wise and all knowing and that He has reasons for allowing things to happen that are beyond our comprehension. Job can attest to this.

I can't call that comment very christian, KFC . . . God doesn't put his fingers in everybody's pie - otherwise, there would be no agency.

then you tell me what is your explanation for the Holocaust? Why is this unChristian?

"For whatever reason God chose to make man as he is, limited and suffering and subject to sorrows and death, He had the honesty and the courage to take His own medicine. Whatever game He is playing with His creation, He has kept His own rules and played fair. He can exact nothing from man that He has not exacted from Himself. He has Himself gone through the whole of human experience from the trivial irritations of family life and the cramping restrictions of hard work and lack of money to the worst horrors of pain and humiliation, defeat, despair and death. When He was a man, He played the man. He was born in poverty and died in disgrace and thought it well worthwhile." Dorothy Sayers, Creed or Chaos pg 4 1949.

We have to remember that God did not create the world in the state in which it is now but evil came as a result of the selfishness of man. God is neither evil nor did He create evil. Man brought evil upon himself by choosing his own way apart from God's way and it's been all downhill from there.

Although evil is real but believers know it is also temporary. It will be eventually destroyed. It's a hope that God has put inside all of us that believe. The writer to Hebrews said "without faith it's impossible to please God." There is where Faith and trust comes into play.